I’ve got a (possibly scandalous!) question for you related to last week’s discussion about Cosmetic Procedures. But first, some backstory:
On our visit to the beach at Deauville, we were getting our chairs and towels situated, when I looked up and realized many of the women on the beach were topless. Not everyone, mind you — I didn’t feel at all out of place wearing my swimsuit — but there were plenty of examples. It’s not like this was an official “topless beach,” it was just a normal public beach, and if you wanted to sunbathe topless, you could. This was the first time I had ever been to a French beach, so I didn’t know, but I’ve since heard it’s the norm here. And I have to say, it was not at all what I imagined a topless beach to be.
Before I visited Deauville, the words “topless beach” brought to mind something scandalous — like a frat party from a movie or a glimpse into life at the Playboy mansion. But the women I saw on the beach were not 18 year olds, they were my peers. Some younger, some older, but pretty much all of them with children and a husband, having a regular family day at the shore. I didn’t want to stare, but I couldn’t help notice these were women who had evidently nursed their children. : ) I was unexpectedly impressed by these women. They weren’t trying to draw attention to themselves, and they weren’t trying to be “sexy”, but they were totally comfortable in their skin and they had very normal bodies — among the full spectrum of “normal”.
Now, I realize there are different standards of modesty in different cultures — from burkas to topless bathing. (Fun fact: I’m a Mormon, and there are some Mormons who believe showing your shoulders is immodest.) I also realize that Americans are nutso when it comes to breasts — implants are commonplace, but women go to great lengths to cover up while nursing their babies. Bizarre! So, pretending modesty isn’t part of the equation, my question is: How do you feel about your body? Are you confident enough in your skin to hang out at the beach topless? (I don’t think I am.) Also. Have you ever visited a beach with topless bathers? Was it shocking?
image by Oh Happy Day
lol, actually I think some of the women with tops on might look sexier :)
To avoid the sexual feelings maybe there should just be different beaches for men and women. I just dont think there is a big difference top on or top off.
Actually to feel comfortable with your body probably has a positive side effect on your sex life. I dont think that is a bad thing. So maybe we can ask Do people in Europe generally have a better sex life? If so isn’t that a good thing?
Ooops this comment was meant as an reply to Zina
I think going topless or not has also something to do with by whom you are surrounded with. Ten years ago when I was backpacking in Italy with my mormon boyfriend we somehow found ourselves on an all naked beach. So there were a lot of naked persons we didn’t know and that was not a problem because we didn’t care for them and they did not care for us (and also we are from east germany and have seen naturist beaches). But of course I myself could not go topless or naked there then with my boyfriend around, but now that we are married to each other I think we totally could. Then it would have been way too imtimitate but now it would be alright, I think.
being a european and going to many, many, many beaches where being “topless” is o.k. i think it’s just normal. actually i don’t really care if a woman wears a top or not {her age doesn’t matter that much either}.
and i don’t think that it has ANYTHING to do with being sexy ore bragging {seriously, a woman at a certain age with breastfed-boobs and no plastic-surgery: what “sex-point” should she be proving??}; but it has a lot to do with self-confidence. and i think it’s great! it teaches our girls {i have daughters} that being in your body, no matter the age, the look, the weight is GREAT. it’s just perfect to be you, to feel good about yourself and to be comfortable around other {half-naked} women.
of course no woman should be forced to show more than she feels comfortable with!
i hope you’re still enjoying the beaches:)
I was waiting for this most when you mentioned the beach! Not for me. I lay in the sun like it was winter in my denim jacket on a beach in France. There summers are like African winter to me anyway. I was probably the talk of the beach and not the lolling mamries. Not one perky pair that I could remember. For me breasts are kept private for feeding and my intermate relationship with hubby. It would be less special for him if they got displayed to any man walking by.
Another note we see boobs alot here in Africa as it is part of tribal dress. My husband served an LDS church mission in Kenya and women would just open up and breast feed in the middle of a religious discussion. Those missionary men had to get out of their sexualised idea of breasts fast
This has definitely been a funny summer weather wise. I wear a jackets on many days!
Wow! I went to sleep and woke up to some grumpy comments. : )
For future reference, any comments implying that women are responsible for the thoughts of men, or that any person is responsible for the thoughts of another person, will be taken down.
I truly admire you for taking this stance. Thank you.
Thank you! I absolutely hate the arguments for modesty where a woman is responsible for the thoughts of others. So glad you won’t allow that here!
Thanks so much! Smart move. ;)
After nursing four babies I always joke that I am now a 38 Long. And no, you won’t find me baring all on any beach (or even in a room with a mirror, if I can help it). However, I grew up overseas and spent a lot of time camping in Europe where the norm was for folks to pretty much do what needs to be done (morning ablutions, etc) for all to see simply because there wasn’t a lot of false modesty, no expectation that anyone would care enough to watch and they were comfortable in their own skin.
Before having kids I went topless quite often, but only when I was with my husband, as my extended family is not that comfortable with showing too much skin. Last week we vacationed in Croatia with the kids (I live in Hungary) and I didn’t fell the urge, although there were many topless women on the beach. :)
Somewhat related to the original topic, as I connect it to American culture (I may be totally wrong): I have always had mixed feelings when seeing toddlers (and very young girls) in bikini tops — as if they had to cover themselves. I find this utterly strange, in my eyes it has a reverse effect, instead of being modest, the bikini tops create a mini-adult. Is this a cultural thing too? What do you think? :)
OH, girl! I have a VIVID memory of going to a “non-topless, topless” beach in Spain when we lived there as a child. Same situation. You could have a top on…or not. We, as Americans, had our tops on. (Even the kids over there are all topless!) And THEN…I turned and looked at the biggest woman I have EVER seen, skin like LEATHER…topless. I am 32 now and STILL have that picture burned into my brain. She looked like a walrus on this picturesque beach! There really were only two families there. Us, and them. US, and the family of topless kids with this topless lady who could easily have been made into a purse had she dropped dead right there! There’s something to be said for being “comfortable” in your own skin, but don’t make others “uncomfortable” in the process, folks! !)
It is so funny to read “top less beach”, there are no top less beaches in France nor in Portugal (where I’m from), it’s just beach and you are top less or not.
It’s not a sexy thing, it’s a tanning thing – to get as less tan lines as you can!!
People of all sizes and shapes, sexual orientations, with families nearby or single do it. As long as they are confortable with their bodies. Imagine how are it would be to be self conscious top less!
Also they are not judgemental, just because one goes top less, doesn’t mean everyone else has to!
Another thing is nudist beach, in Portugal they are right along side a (normal) beach, they are not closed or extreamly secluded, you are just warned by a simple sign you’ll be entering a nudist zone.
I’m LDS too and have no problems at all with topless (or even nude) bathing. Nude beaches–and I’ve been to a few during all my summers working in France–make me laugh, actually, because it’s just about as far from sexual hedonism as you can imagine! It’s either a nice young family with little kids, or it’s old retired couples. Either way, it’s not at all about exploiting the body sexually.
I’ve gone topless in France once or twice and it didn’t bother me, but I generally wear a top. Not because of modesty concerns, but more to protect my skin from the sun. And now that I’ve nursed three children, I can’t STAND the feeling of my breasts touching my chest. They used to be perky As and now they’re droopier C/D’s (currently nursing my 5-month-old and 2-yo-old). For that reason alone I would never bathe topless!
ps–this is a bit off topic, but I also nurse openly “from the top” (pulling a v-neck shirt down) as well as “from the bottom” (pulling a shirt up). This includes sacrament meeting, etc. I think North American culture is way too obsessed with breasts and the focus on covering them up–even when they’re being functional, or rather *especially* when they’re being functional and nourishing a baby–is damaging to everyone: men and young men as well as women. So I do my best to make nursing not a big deal, as it used to be even in LDS culture. (For example, women used to open up their dresses and nurse openly and uncovered in Sacrament Meeting in the 1800s. See here for details: http://rixarixa.blogspot.com/2010/08/breastfeeding-history-moment-lds.html)
Gabrielle, Here are some thoughts:
What if it is a completely nude beach? Would you or your readers be as comfortable taking their daughters? Would these same women who think their sons, and men in general should be ok seeing us naked be ok with their 12 year old daughters seeing their fathers or other men naked? I don’t mean to be crude, but if it really is all about liberation, comfort and nature, should there be any difference?
This is what I don’t understand. Why, as women, does being “comfortable” with our bodies mean that we should be ok exposing them? And that everyone else should be ok with it as well? Since when did the virtue of modesty become the byproduct of shame? It seems as if most of the commenters who say they wouldn’t, are apologizing for their lack of bravado. Saying it’s only because they are too white/flabby etc…
Why cant we celebrate modesty? I have no shame of my body, but I choose to be modest for many spiritual and practical reasons. I’m curious if anyone has a good answert to this side of the question.
Hi Marianne! Here are some thoughts in response:
You say, “It seems as if most of the commenters who say they wouldn’t, are apologizing for their lack of bravado. Saying it’s only because they are too white/flabby etc…”
I believe these responses are because of the particular question I posed, which was: pretending you can take the modesty question out of it (it’s modest in some cultures, immodest in others), are you comfortable enough with your body that you would go topless at the beach?
So, the question isn’t actually about modesty at all, I was asking about body image, about how women view themselves.
Gotcha! In reading so many comments, I followed too many other train-of-thoughts, mainly the ones dealing with peoples issues with nudity. Seeing as so many people were pro-nudity, I guess I wanted to see the other side of that coin and lost track of the original question. Sorry. I didn’t mean to derail the topic. I would be totally ok if you erased my comment.
A few more thoughts:
I do think many people celebrate modesty! I certainly try to. But I also think modesty means much more than how a person dresses.
As for a fully nude beach, I’ve never been to one and don’t know how I’d react. But I suppose some of the reaction would come down to how our family reacts to nudity in our own home. Which is frankly, pretty casually. If my kids want to talk to me or my husband as we’re showering or getting dressed, they come talk to us — it’s a non issue.
I suppose if nudity in general is something that is stressful to a certain family, the reaction to a nude beach or even a few topless bathers, will be much stronger.
It’s really interesting that some see “topless” beaches as sexual, when the reality is they are exactly the opposite. Breasts are not sexual unless they are purposely sexualized; otherwise, they’re just a normal part of someone’s body, just the same as your nose or ears or knees. Not covering your breasts is as unremarkable in many parts of the world as not covering your toenails. I think it’s wonderful, and incredibly liberating, that there are places in the world that don’t have the weird sexual hangups about the human body that North Americans do. Having said that? I probably wouldn’t sunbathe topless – but not because I would not want to expose my breasts, but rather because I tend to be pretty covered up in the sun anyway in order to keep my pasty white skin from getting completely fried.
As in France, topless women on a beach is very common in Belgium. I don’t do it myself, but nobody here minds. The only etiquette is that you cover your ladies when you go for a bite to eat. And letting your kids run around nekid in the summer is a great way to get them potty trained without a huge pile of laundry…
We stumbled upon a topless beach in St. Maartin years ago and I also thought it would be young, buff beauties strutting their stuff. Instead, it was 60-80 year old women letting it all hang out. I wouldn’t have the guts to do it no matter the age, but it was refreshing to see these women feeling very confident in their skin.
I remember my first holiday in france aged eight and being a bit giggly about the jiggly bits. But like with your kids, it lasted about half an hour. Since then I have always gone topless when in France/Greece and at times in Ireland where we live.
Having said that I didn’t go topless this year in France but I think that is more to do with trying to stay in the shade and there is not really much point in being topless in the shade. Also the older I get the more I appreciate the support of the top.
On a slight change of subject have you come accross the ‘speedo police’ since you’ve been in France? In the last few years it has become widespread that at public pools men and boys cannot wear baggy boxer style swim trunks and must wear fitted swimsuits! It is really strongly enforced in some campsites I’ve been to. They say is for hygienic reasons. Seriously annoying having to go out and buy new swimsuits for all the boys and I’m sorry but do we really need to see men in tight swim shorts, yuck!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/aug/12/speedos-fashion
Design Mom-I have to say that I don’t love that you would equate going topless with being comfortable in your own skin. I am extremely comfortable in my own skin, but I wouldn’t go topless at the beach, even if it was considered the norm. I know this is due to my beliefs on modesty, but I truly believe that our bodies are beautiful and sacred and baring them to others is downplaying the sacred nature of our bodies. I am not in any way saying others are wrong if they disagree with me, just saying that you can still be comfortable in your own skin and consider yourself beautiful in every way even if you aren’t willing to go topless.
sorry-i just couldn’t help bringing in the modesty issue. it’s just a HUGE part of who i am
Hi Brooke. I think modesty is a virtue most people care about — but living modestly does not equate to dressing a specific way. So much of “dressing modestly” is cultural. That’s why I tried to take modesty out of the question.
I’m not trying to “equate going topless with being comfortable in your skin.” I’m saying, if you were in a place where it was culturally normal to be topless, do you like your body enough to join in? It sounds like you like your body, so you would probably be a yes. I’m troubled by my very uneven chest so I don’t think I would be a yes, but I would love to get over my negative issues about my chest. Conversations like the one on this blog post help.
I feel out-of-step with many Americans on this. My husband was an Army brat who spent most of his childhood in Europe and my mother’s family were recent European immigrants. So, we are both so comfortable with nudity. And it really isn’t sexual–for example, I think it is way more inappropriate for a toddler to wear a bikini than to only wear a diaper.
I would not go topless in America, because of the attitudes here–I don’t want anyone gaping at me–but I would definitely do it on Europe.
We also go naked in our house more than I think most people do. (overshare!)
I’m smiling while reading your article :-) I read the previous one about your Dauville experience and I was expecting to hear about the topless subject…. but no, it didn’t come that time so I didn’t say anything… maybe things have changed in France in the recent years? Actually they did. Going topless was big, very big in the 80’s but breast cancer prevention came and things changed a bit, just a bit.
Like you said, going topless is a very natural thing in France; the main idea is to get a uniform tan. It’s always funny to see the reaction of foreigners though, young and old, when they discover this tradition à la plage. Enjoy! ;-0
I would go topless only b/c I think my 34A’s have held up remarkably well after nursing three kids (there isn’t much to sag when you don’t have much to start with!). For me, the bigger hurdle has been getting comfortable wearing a 2-piece bathing suit. I am NOT in 2-piece shape, but I’ve been trying it out here and there, just to force myself to be more comfortable with how I look RIGHT NOW. And while no one has wolf-whistled at me (thank goodness) no one has said anything mean either (thank GOODNESS). I’m in awe to those women who can do this without the least bit of self-consciousness. I’m still working on that.
I don’t think I would, haven’t yet. For me it isn’t about repression, or comfort level, or sex. This is my body, it is private, and I WANT to only show it to my husband. And I think Zechamu comparing heads to breasts is silly.
I went to France with my family when I was 6 and I distinctly remember shopping for a bathing suit there and finding bottoms only for little girls. :)
I found this to be true. For under 6 set, there are pretty much only bottoms sold.
Interesting! I didn’t realize that. I hope you brought along plenty of suits for Maude ;) (OK, I guess she’s older than 6 LOL!)
That is especially true of me. I was raised topless on the beach, bottoms-only.
(sorry for being anonymous… But my email is full of mails from comments like this)
As I read this article, my brain was screaming “NO WAY”. I realize European cultures are different from the way I’ve been raised in the United States, but my answer is still “no way” I would not be comfortable with it. As it is I have spent hours at stores trying on bathing swimsuit to end up leaving without purchasing any simply because none of them cover up enough skin.
Three cheers for saggy boobs and cellulite proudly displayed at the beach. I should move to France! It’s interesting, in my college dorm there was only a large group shower (we were living in a former mens’ athletic dorm). In the first weeks, the girls would line up hours before class so that they could enter the giant shower one-by-one and have complete privacy. At a certain point, most of us decided we’d rather sleep-in than get up to shower at 5am! It wasn’t long before most of us just jumped in when there was an available spot and it was no big deal. It sounds like your public beach experience was probably a nice reminder, like that group shower, that we all have the same “stuff” just in varying shapes and sizes (and that real women’s bodies are usually far from the extreme, surgically-enhanced ‘ideal’ usually portrayed in the media as normal)! Would I go topless at the beach in France? Maybe, but only with SPF one million and, I liked your comment about context, with a group of girlfriends, not my husband’s business partner!
SPF one million made me laugh.
Our neighbor’s had a house guest a few weeks ago who was sunbathing nude. There’s a wood fence between our yard and theirs, but my husband got an eyeful anyway during his chores outside. I was a tad, uncomfortable about there being a naked lady where my husband and possibly my teen son’s could get a look. Then I thought about it. With all the negative stuff my kids view a day what could the harm be if they saw our neighbor’s guest in the nude? And as for my husband, he had a laugh and a funny story to tell at work the next Monday. So, nude beach? Who needs a beach! Haha!
It’s such an interesting discussion — thanks for bringing it up, Gabrielle.
We just returned from a vacation in Spain, and we spend numerous afternoons on the lovely Spanish beaches where, as you explained, going ‘topless’ is as normal as it is to be ‘covered’. I personally find that when you’re not ‘exposed’ to ‘topless’ on a regular basis it can be considered shocking, however when you’re on a beach and surrounded by topless women who are comfortable with their bodies (even if they have clearly been breastfeeding as you pointed out, or if they have different sizes breasts, or other totally normal things ;-) ), you get used to the idea fast. And you may find the urge to take off your own top! Kids can be naked if they like, women can be topless, and it’s all natural, accepted, and fine.
I would like to add to the discussion that saunas in the Netherlands (and Scandinavian countries) are shared by men and women, there is nothing ‘sexual’ about these saunas, it’s totally normal sauna and it’s acceptable to be nude for both. In fact, it’s not accepted to wear a bathing suit in a sauna! xxx
Ben Blair takes a sauna after every workout at the gym. He loves a good sauna!
I think what this post illustrates very well is just how arbitrary standards of modesty are. Everyone has a different idea of what is and isn’t modest and that leads me to feel that many discussions had here in north America about what is and isn’t modest are usually silly and that it’s not really that big of a deal.
I was thinking the same thing.
I spent a summer in France during high school, and the first day I got there my hosts took me to the beach. I didn’t notice any topless women there, but a man set up his stuff just behind us and proceeded to strip completely naked. I don’t really think that’s normal, but we were in a pretty secluded spot of the beach. Also, the daughter in one of the families I stayed with only swam with bikini bottoms, and we would spend the day in the pool, and then she would come to the dinner table just as she was, with only her swimsuit bottoms. It was a bit of an adjustment for me, but it was really interesting to see that it was just normal behavior to her family–they didn’t seem to think twice about it.
I am not embaressed by the human form at all and don’t want my children to feel ashamed of their bodies in their natural states at any point in their lives. I have 4 kids and although my form is less than perfect at this point, I have learned to walk tall knowing that the happiness I have achieved through raising a family was worth it 100 times over!
My husband and I went to Mexico recently and are currently residing in Brazil. Although I think we should each be proud of our bodies however they look, I do not think it is appropriate for women to go topless. I am pro-breast feeding, etc. But blatant nudity seems so silly to me. I save those most intimate parts of myself for my husband only and would never want to downplay my gift to him by exposing it to all of mankind.
I feel I can teach self confidence to my kids within the walls of our home. I don’t need a topless beach to help me confirm that principle. A confident, modest woman is to me more stunning than any scantilly clad female no matter her age.
From one Erin to another, thumbs up!
“I feel I can teach self confidence to my kids within the walls of our home.”
Absolutely! So true.
Though the idea of my body as a “gift” to my husband always makes me cringe. Did you ever see the SNL skit “D**k in a box”? : )
I must admit to being confused by all the responses implying that the only reason a woman would cover up her breasts at the beach is because of embarrassment and/ or cultural shame, indicating that if she were really comfortable with herself she would have no qualms about sauntering around the beach topless. Shame and embarrassment seem a weak reason to do or to not do something. I myself don’t go topless, but because I have a deep respect for my body, rather then a lack of, and that is how I choose to manifest that. I guess an example of that is that some people chose to talk about some of their most personal experiences and deepest feelings in public, where as some people reserve those for a more intimate setting. Is one better then the other? I really think that depends on the person, but let’s not discount a woman who chooses to not go topless as less free, confident, etc. She might have a real strong and valid reason that has nothing to do with shame.
Hi Beth! I believe these responses are because of the particular question I posed, which was about body image, about how women view themselves.
I’m totally ok with topless beaches :) besides, were from new jersey, and if you go to beaches there I bet you’ll see more boobs than any French beach, but on the guys! They have back hair and beer bellies and walk around shirtless, if they aren’t considered immodest, why should I feel insecure or ashamed?
I’m LDS too. Having said that…… I was very uncomfortable nursing in public or even at home that was only because I was proud that it was so hard and I was always fumbling with my clothes and my baby all at once… I hated when I took too long and my baby cried and then people would look and (I thought) laugh or think that I was really bad at nursing my baby.. I was very uncomfortable, at the beginning, but along with many women all over the world, I soon got the hang of it and soon nursed exposed, covered, however I was comfortable. As for topless beaches, I have bathed at some in Europe and South Beach, FL and I wasn’t uncomfortable. I feel like ( and this is especially for the LDS audience) if you are seen in a swimming suit, you are pretty much naked anyway. As long as you are not parading around (or running) showing off your body for men and women to oodle over you, then its totally fine. Lets just be classy, people.. no matter, LDS or not. (and for the record, after having my baby, I do not look good with my top off so you’ll see me in a little sun dress and that’s as bare as I’ll get, lately. If/when I look better – I don’t want to make any one throw up – I’ll certainly sun bathe in full comfort :-) but in the end, to each his own.
I’ve had the discussion with my European hubby who said it was normal to go topless but that maybe I shouldn’t do it around my inlaws. Let me tell you that BF on the beach is less anxiety-provoking when your neighbors are topless;)
My nieces wear only swimsuit bottoms which struck me as strange. I think US kids wear tops as well or one pieces. Or is that outdated? The Swiss are hardly known for exhibitionism!
I love how daring you were to ask this question…your readers responses are entertaining! Scandalous or not, I admire people who are confident about their body in a very tasteful way.
After reading more responses, I think that people are conditioned by the culture they live in about our bodies. I am another one of those “modest is hottest” kind of people, but I don’t think that seeing a naked body has to be a sexual thing all the time. My husband, a medical professional, has to see naked bodies almost all the time, and he doesn’t bat an eyelash. As long as Americans sexualize EVERYTHING, we will never get away from the boob obsession. On a completely different subject, have you heard about the breast feeding doll for young girls? It’s from over seas and coming to America…obviously controversial. It’s interesting to hear the views on both sides. But that would be for a different discussion. :)
Would I feel confident enough? Sure. I’m always surprised at the number of shapes and sizes and arrangements that human bodies come in, despite all of us being the same race.
That being said, I wouldn’t go topless at a beach simply because I don’t think it’s modest. Breasts, for all they are and mean and do, are too sacred to show to just anyone–even if they’re not looking.
Yay for confidence!
Your thought about breasts being “too sacred to show” reminded me how cultural modesty is. In some countries, every part of a woman’s body is “too sacred to show” (think burkas). I imagine there are many places in the world where an American woman would wear a conservative “modest” outfit (maybe jeans, sneakers and a t-shirt) and be considered about as modest as a prostitute.
True enough. Plus, modesty, I’ve noticed, reflects the calendar year; it’s July in Minnesota, and I can’t imagine living when showing your ankle was enough to earn you an undesirable reputation, or when a bathing suit really emphasized the “suit” part, long sleeves and pants. Or doing winter in Minnesota when women didn’t wear pants, which is only about 50 years ago.
Being English, it doesnt phase me at all. Having been on holidays all over Europe from a young age, and living in a sea side town with a language school, this is common place. (lots of scandinavians, learning English)
I agree with a previous comment, There is no such thing as a topless beach. There are beaches and then that are nudist beaches. There will be a sign for a nudist beach. and all other beaches are just free to anyone as long as they wear pants/bottoms. Wear as much or as little as you want.
You will be hard pushed if you went to a hotel in Greece, Italy, Spain or France, to not see it. With the large amounts of more northern Europeans flocking to these places to catch the rays, it is simply a fact, that is what will happen.
Even in Sharm El Sheik, the Russians, Germans, Dutch, Norweigen ladies I met there were topless, whilst pool side. And being Egypt it is obviously an Islamic country.
as in another comment, could it be that we have over sexualised breasts? That people on the TV with their enhanced bodies are the norm and due to implants are seen as sex objects and not for what they were intended? For a baby…
There is a time and place for everything. people know when to wear clothes. common sense and respect for others.
fab post! very thought provoking.
I couldn’t do it, but I wouldn’t mind if others did.
I had experienced European beaches as a child as well as Barton Springs. What caught me off guard as a teenager spending a summer with a German family was the father of the family undressing at the beach to change into his trunks. The college aged brothers did as well. I just looked away and wished we were as comfortable about nudity here.
I remember my first visit to a topless beach… I was with my parents and I was pretty embarrassed. When I was 25 I spent a summer in Europe and felt completely comfortable going topless, as long as my US friends weren’t there (I think it would have been awkward only because it wasn’t the norm for us).
I am a 33 year old mother of 3 and breast cancer survivor. I have had a bilateral mastectomy and reconstruction. My breasts are far from perfect, they are very scarred after 8 surgeries. Through my journey, breasts have become just another body part. They are almost not even connected to me anymore. Topless? Sure. It would feel the same as showing my hands or feet. I have not always felt this way but I think it would make a difference in the emotional struggles of breast cancer if we could shift our way of thinking a little. I hope my daughter can grow up and not feel like breasts equal sex.
So interesting, Erin!
The thing that I find strange about America is that they seem to assume that they have to talk about sex etc. / imply sex in every aspect EXCEPT the nudity to get your attention (eg. bikini wax styles on the local news), yet people get all up in arms about nudity. When I lived in Germany, there would be plenty of topless sunbathers at the outdoor pool and then there would also be topless women in a daytime margarine advert – which I found ridiculous. As for the UK, there would be a few topless women about (well, it is a tad colder there) and the nudity on tv is limited to after 9pm – yet there is less talk about / implying of sex than goes on in America the rest of the time.
So I grew up with nudity being considered ok, but not to be shoved needlessly in your face. It may sound weird, but I am sick of seeing topless women in movies, where I don’t consider it needed for the story, yet topless women on a beach I see as less of an issue. However, these days there are people who post voyeur pictures of topless women on a beach on the ‘net, which I think adds another dimension to the issue. I would actually want my kids to be more conservative than I was, because back when I was younger there was not the possibility of things being shared instantly with millions…
Good comment. Facebook and instant needs to share. this maybe is something people need to think about more now. I sure didnt think of that.
i spent a year going topless the year i studied in France. i haven’t done it since then, but likely would if it was just me, my husband, and a bunch of people i didn’t know. what was interesting to me is that i had no problem doing it as long as none of the american guys were at the beach. if they were, i’d cover up. it would be the same today if we were on a topless beach with our friends. i wouldn’t go topless in front of them – but i have no problem with other people going topless.
So interesting to hear different stories! I only went topless once…on my honeymoon in Jamaica. I saw some other women doing it and figured this would be my only chance to try! It was liberating, but I also felt scandalous, and my new husband was quite impressed. :)
Interestingly enough, my sorority floor in college had NO curtains in the group showers…it was like a shower in a gym. I remember being so nervous to shower there after I moved up to the floor, which everyone said was typical. The first week I would avoiding looking places and felt awkward. Then, like many have said, you realize that everyone has these parts, some better-looking and some not. And it became no big deal…but the guys were always asking questions and curious about it. Guys are all naked in their gym showers and it’s no big deal, but they couldn’t handle girls doing the same! lol
For me, the biggest difference between the two experiences was that the shower situation was in front of only females…the beach was in front of men and women, which made me feel a lot more “naked.”
Such an interesting discussion! My in-laws are European (but live in South Africa) and often skinny dip in their pool or when we hike to lakes/rivers to swim. At first it made me uncomfortable, but it feels so much better to swim naked that now I don’t mind. It’s definitely NOT sexual at all! Also, European and Australian men (in my experience) are much more likely to wear small speedo type suits rather than more covered up shorts. So it’s not just the women that show more skin.
Also, I have been to natural undeveloped hot springs on the west coast of the US where it was the norm to go naked (although not everyone did). It was not sexual there either, families with children, twenty-somethings and old hippies all mingled together. I still wore a bottom, but did go topless.
I think I would not have an issue with it, coming from a small Nordic country. I am also used to men wearing speedos and not really long shorts for swimming. I would maybe worry a tad about getting sunburned as I have not gone topless in years and if discussing body parts, my thighs are more of a concern indeed for me personally:) In the US, I am sometimes really bothered by the fact that small kids are all dressed up in bikinis. If I remember correctly, I started covering up my breasts when they started to grow which was definitely not before the age of 12 at least. So, until then I wore bottoms to the beach (and nothing when I was little) as did most of my peers. Now, I sadly see, that in my country too, people are starting to dress their small toddlers in bikinis already. Although, you can still see totally nude children as well. My two year old was naked at the beach and my 5 year old sometimes as well if she came from a swim and needed to dry off. Nobody stares or looks at them awkward in my home country. Now, that I am returning back from vacationing in my home country to the DC area in the States, I am already concerned that people probably expect me to put a bathing suit on my two year old (turns 2 in Sept) who still is a total baby, but to brag a little, diaper-free since 18 months. So, she does not need a diaper as the majority of US children her age would, but norms require to dress her up. Or what is the general view on this? Sorry, for using this topic for this question, but it really bothers me. Our children see us naked and I believe in not putting an embarrassment flag on nudity is a key to self-confidence about your body in the future and it is just a natural thing overall.
Congrats on the diaper free 18-month year old!
How do I feel about my body? Would I go topless at a topless beach? Sure (if I wasn’t concerned about modesty). Like a lot of commenters, for me, it’s all contextual. I’ve lived in Europe and now live in Morocco. The former is home to topless beaches, the latter to public baths and hammams (where you lie naked and another woman scrubs the bejeebers out of your skin–it feels amazing). In both these situations, it’s so totally blase to just strip it all and hang out (literally) that you find yourself blase about it, too! Suddenly you’re thinking, ‘Who cares what my breasts look like? Who cares what my post-partum stomach looks like? Obviously no one here, so naked it is!’ It’s completely liberating.
But the amazing thing is how horribly awkward you feel going to the hammam with an American friend.
Loving this post, Gabby! When Chris & I ventured to Brasil for a month, my perspective on beach-appropriateness totally changed. Women at the beach (and some men) wore thongs, but mostly as little as possible. It wasn’t a sexual thing for locals. It was a functional thing. Every shape & size wore the same kind of suit & no one pointed & sneered.
I wish we were like that here in the states. Specifically in Utah. It’s scandalous if a mother comes to the pool in a bikini. Either it’s too unflattering for her to bare her skin (because only flawless people can get away with it) or its too flattering and that marriage isn’t going to last long. I’ve heard both kinds of comments.
Ugh! Stories like that are so frustrating.
As a guy who has visited the topless beaches in Europe, I agree that the standards of modesty are somewhat relative. By my estimation, a woman who is comfortable wearing a bikini in the US will probably go topless in Europe given enough time. Objectively speaking, it would be difficult to define a small bikini top as “modest”, while being topless is “immodest”. It is merely a matter of degree.
I however disagree that there is “nothing sexual about it”. Wearing little to no clothing sends strong signal for sexual availability. This is of course very natural. It may appear that public semi-nudity initially has a more mesmerizing effect on American men than their European counterparts. However, the casual attitude of European men around nudity should not be misinterpreted for lack of sexual interest.
“it would be difficult to define a small bikini top as “modest”, while being topless is “immodest”.”
I agree with that.
“Wearing little to no clothing sends strong signal for sexual availability.”
I disagree with that. A woman wearing swimwear, which would certainly be defined as “little or no clothing”, is not sending signals of sexual availability — even though men might want to interpret it that way.
A woman at the beach with her family, building sandcastles while dressed in swimwear, is sending sexual availability signals? Really?
I’m quite sure the only time a woman wearing little or no clothing is sending signals of sexual availability, is when she asks you to have sex with her, and then takes her clothes off.
Thank you, for your response to my comment. I think that you have expressed a one-sided idealization of sexual signaling. As the Design Mom you must be profoundly aware of the ability of appearance and esthetics to communicate an idea.
Here is a more concise rebuttal, excerpted from scholarly paper:
“Because sexual intercourse requires a degree of nudity, once the adults in a society go about clothed, nudity becomes a signal of sexual availability.”
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/69.FremR_.Pos_.Status.pdf
Hi Jack. Yes, I’m sure my response is one-sided. I don’t have time to read the article you link to, but if I did have time, I still don’t think I would read it. I can’t say I’m particularly interested in the other side of the argument.
The excerpt you quote is certainly concise and scholarly, but just because it’s a law school paper, doesn’t make it right. The kind of thinking it leads to is the common defense of rape. As in, well, she was wearing a mini-skirt so she was pretty much asking for it.
Having been to quite a few beaches in Europe, and Thailand, I’ve experienced many topless women. At first it was a bit of a shock (it’s not something you see here in Australia) but you get used to it. While I’m not comfortable enough to do it myself, I admire the women that do go topless as, like you said, they’re obviously very comfortable and relaxed in their own skin. I remember seeing women of all different ages and shapes/sizes wearing bikinis or going topless in Europe. I think that Australian women (and possibly American by the sounds of it?) are often very insecure and also judgemental of others and what they look like/wear which is very sad.